On standby and awaitng next beta May take a few days to give feedback on to testing as having some interruptions. Have to take my father to a some
doctors appointments over the next few weeks.

I'm looking forward to trying out the SR1 version of S-16, but I think she's already near to perfect for my needs! The only changes/additions I would want are:

- more pose controls for the hands (LLF's original Star figure has some nifty extra controls); for my purposes I wouldn't care if already-installed Hand Pose presets didn't work on any new controls, as I hardly ever use those (and only as starting points)
- an easy way to set up a base S-16 that does not have the KV or any of the related erotica morphs (for those of us who mainly work with clothed teen characters for PG-13 stories!)

I know I can disable them with the "Disable Genitalia" dial, but all the references still remain on parameter dials -- and call me squeamish, but "open vagina" and "open anus" are not things I want to see as I work on a 15 year old girl character! I also don't really need all those extra lines of code in the CR2 if I'm not using those parts.

I also know there's a "hard" way to disable everything, b/c that's what I did with the original S-16. I went through your custom CR2 and painstakingly removed all parameter dials, morph data, and weight maps for the KV and associated parts. I use BBEdit on a Mac to edit Poser files, and it has the ability to "collapse" sections of code between curly brackets, but it doesn't have any of the Poser-specific features of something like D3D's Poser File Editor. So removing all the KV parts took over an hour, and it's not something I particularly look forward to doing again with an updated CR2. But if it would require just as much work on your end to remove those parts, then please don't bother, esp. if those who'd find a no-KV option helpful are in the minority!

PS: I'm always willing to beta-test anything you make, although my testing would be based on typical school girl clothes and poses, not the more adult stuff. I can also test out how things work on a Mac.

Zitat von Karina

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I think your suggestions are doable within a reasonable time.

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Before I go any further, I want to say that you should only consider implementing my (or anyone's) suggestions IF you think they'd be beneficial to a large number of S-16 users!

Just b/c *I* want a "PG-13" version of S-16, that doesn't mean *you* should be the one who has to put all the work into making it, especially if doing so would take longer than 10 minutes and would be of interest to only a handful of users! When I made the comment, I had no idea what might be involved on your end, but I figured I'd ask in case it turned out to be fairly simple to do, depending on your workflow. I do know how to do it myself, by editing the CR2 from the Sasha-16 setup files, and I am certainly willing to do it again with an updated setup CR2!

Zitat

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However, as a fast and simple alternative I could offer you a .pz2 injection which could do the following:

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Having an easy way to strip out vertex data would be a big help, as that's what made it take so long doing it manually. While BBEdit has the ability to "collapse" data between curly brackets, it was slow to do so with such a large CR2. It also will only collapse one set at a time, so what made the editing process take so long was having to scroll through such long chunks of vertex data.

If those could be removed by applying a PZ2, then I can easily make the rest of the edits manually! Making the "morphs in question" hidden via a PZ2 would also be helpful, but I can do that manually as well.

As for "actors" still being visible in the Hierarchy Editor, that would be fine. I can always rename them myself. And it's not that I mind them being there. What made me want to strip the KV-related stuff out of the CR2 was (a) to get a leaner figure (since I use a lot of S-16s in a single scene); and (b) to avoid having "open vagina" and "open anus" jump out at me while I'm posing 15-year old girl characters! I have no issues whatsoever with other people using those features on their own adult characters, but that's just not how I use Poser.

Zitat

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Please make up a list of which morphs and (if you can specify) weightmaps you want to disappear from the .cr2

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Here's how I found the segments I deleted: by using BBEdit's search tool to find all references to these terms:
vagina
clit
minora
majora
anus
uretha

(BTW: my spellchecker says the spelling should be: urethra)

If it would be more helpful to you to have a list of all the actors, morphs, and weight maps sections that include those items, I can do that, but not today! I can also send you my current "stripped" SASHA-16 WM (BASE).cr2 if that would be helpful.

Zitat

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I think we can get this achieved without any huge effort if you can make do with the limitations.
It also wouldn't halt SR1 because I could publish the .pz2 file at a later time.

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No worries about either! And again, don't even consider going to the trouble unless you've heard from other S-16 users who would also appreciate the same thing (or if you think offering the option would encourage more users to give her a try)!

As for additional hand controls, I'll say more about that in a separate post!

Zitat von Karina

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Currently I'm considering of making the whole KV thing an extra injection during setup, so people won't need to explicitly get rid of it, but instead can add it if they wish so.

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I was going to suggest the idea of offering a separate KV-free version as "Sasha-16 Teen", while the "fully loaded" version would remain "Sasha-16 Full." (In other words, putting the Teen morph only in a KV-free version would further insulate yourself from the naysayers.) But the idea of having a separate KV setup process works too!

As for timing, at least for me personally, I'm in no hurry for SR1 b/c the original S-16 works so well for me already. What I'm anxiously awaiting is Misha!

Zitat von Karina

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Now waiting for the extra hand dials you've suggested.

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Finally had a chance to get some info for you about LLF's Star figure's hand controls. She comes with two in particular that I found very useful when I was setting up a scene with Star characters using my "Messy Painter" props -- Inner Bend and Inner Spread -- and that made me wish V4 had something similar.

Now of course V4's hand rigging is different from Star's (and Star's hand has more bones), and but I was thinking it might be possible to set up similar kinds of hand movements in V4 using the kind of master parameter controls you used for the Easy Posing dials.

I'm attaching some renders and screenshots that I hope show you how Star's hand works. It's not that I'd want V4's hand to move in the exact same way, but rather that having the ability to do some kind of "inner bend" or "inner spread" makes it much easier to get the rest of the hand into a suitable position using the other dials.

When I first set up V4 hand poses for the "Messy Painter" set, I did so using my custom base S-16. But when I tested out the hand poses using a default V4 on a different computer, they didn't work as intended. After much head scratching, I figured out why: my S-16's hands have different joint limits set on the finger actors than what comes on the default V4. (I always work with "Use Limits" on, for various reasons.)

I don't know if I changed the limits or you did, but regardless, the limits on my S-16 make hand posing much easier than on a default V4. So that's the last time I'll go to the bother of including hand poses for those who aren't using S-16!

Still, I wouldn't mind having a few extra controls to make hand posing easier, esp. when you want the thumb to wrap around something like a water bottle. LLF Star's Inner Bend is particularly helpful for that motion. I can eventually get V's hand to do something similar if I spend the afternoon dialing rotations in and out on every single finger actor and the hand actor, but it's kinda maddening!

PS: I never pose figures by clicking on body parts and dragging (and/or by using IK). That just never worked well for me, whereas using parameter dials does.

Goodness me, so VERY VERY VERY much work going on with all this!!

So, how can I help?

Zitat von Karina

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While I already guess what you want to achieve, it might be helpful if I could actually see how it works on the real STAR figure.
Is it available for free?

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Star is not free, but I think you get the idea: her palm is not rigid the way V4's is, so it can bend and twist in helpful ways. I would love to have that extra rigging in V4's hands, even if it meant I couldn't use other people's hand poses or conforming gloves! Is there a way to release such a thing separately, for those who'd find it useful?

As for gloves, I rarely use them myself, but I wonder: could you still parent the glove to the hand and pose it using its own finger rotation dials (while hiding S-16's hand)?

At a minimum, here are two hand controls I would like to have in S-16:

(1) A "bend knuckles" control for each Hand actor that bends all the fingers at the 1st joint only, leaving the rest of the fingers straight.

(2) A "Hands" subsection in the Body's "Easy Posing" section that includes dials for bending each hand (since that's often all I need to do while working out a pose using the other Easy Posing dials; the fingers can come later)

I can always try to set these up myself, if you think they wouldn't be broadly useful.

Overall, I really appreciate the improvements you've already put into V4's hands, and I know I'll appreciate anything else you might add!

Zitat

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I use 3DConnexion's "Space Mouse" which makes working with Poser a breeze:

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I actually have that mouse, but I discovered that it only works if the mouse can rest on a sturdy, flat surface (like a desk), and I couldn't find a way to set up such a surface given that I work on a laptop while sitting sideways on a sofa. Nothing I tried would keep the mouse stable and flat enough for it to be useful, and I have too many back problems to sit any other way.

I actually find the MacBook Pro's huge trackpad (with "tap drag" enabled) very handy when working in 3D apps, and I can "fly around" with ease in any app that has camera controls like the ones at the top of Poser's Preview window. (I never use the larger camera control window so it's always closed.) With "tap drag" I just tap on the camera icon once and then use trackpad "gestures" to move the camera around (like I would in a 3D app on an iPad). For me it's very intuitive!

I do always use the hand cameras while posing fingers, since they helpfully rotate around the hand. I've just never understood how people pose fingers by clicking and dragging on them, since the fingers don't need to be translated but rotated. I sometimes use the "direct manipulation gadget" to rotate fingers instead of the parameter dials, so that I can move between finger joints just by selecting them, but sometimes the gadget doesn't work (if I've zoomed in too close), so then I use the dials.

But here's the problem I have with posing V4's hands: b/c the palms don't bend, often the only way I can get the hands where I want them is to try out various combinations of shoulder, forearm, and hand rotations until the palm is in the right spot (so I can then pose the fingers).

As an example, look at how the mom (figure on the right) is putting her right hand on her daughter's shoulder in this holiday portrait. It took more time to get her hand posed like that than it took to set up the whole rest of the scene!

Often I can get what I want using S-16's "Easy Posing" controls, but for this particular pose I had to use the dials on the shoulder, forearm, and hand actors instead. I'm not sure why, but that was the only way I could get the mom's hand to rest on the daughter's shoulder and not go through the neckline of the dress. The ability to bend V4's hand at the palm definitely would've made this easier!

Zitat von Karina

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I was traveling for the last three weeks, so sorry for the late reply.

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No worries!

I'm looking forward to trying out the improvements you're including with SR1! I'm happy with my current S-16 base figure (with KV removed manually), which I've used to set up 8 female characters for my graphic novel. I'm holding off on setting up any more female characters until the SR1 is ready, but no rush! I have plenty of props and sets to work on!

I'm also holding off on setting up new male characters until you're able to release a Misha, although I'm guessing that most of what goes into character setup will work on Misha. So I guess it's more that I'm holding off on using male characters until I get an M4 that's as easy to use as the S-16 V4!